The Abortion President

| 58 Comments

President-elect Obama, the abortion president, will soon take office on January 20, 2009. Indeed, this will be an excruciating painful day for America. During his campaign, Mr. Obama voiced his full support for the killing of our unborn sisters and brothers by abortion. In fact, he even went so far as to say that a child who survived an abortion should be left to die, not resuscitated. Ouch!

An article by Peter J. Smith, LifeSiteNews.com, June 10, 2008, reported that President-elect Obama's first priority as president would be to "sign the Freedom of Choice Act," a statement made in a speech to abortion supporters of Planned Parenthood's Action Fund.

The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) is legislation Obama has co-sponsored that would end all state laws limiting or regulating abortion, including the federal ban on partial birth abortion. It would also terminate informed consent laws, waiting periods, and health safety regulations for abortion clinics.

According to the same article, the 2007 version of FOCA proposed: "It is the policy of the United States that every woman has the fundamental right to choose to bear a child, to terminate a pregnancy prior to fetal viability, or to terminate a pregnancy after fetal viability when necessary to protect the life or health of the woman."

"America has made her 'choice' for maximum leader and it is not pretty, said Rev. Thomas J. Euteneuer, president, Human Life International. In fact, it is one of the most devastating blows to American civilization that we have ever undergone, and I do not speak in hyperbole. He then quoted Mother Theresa: a nation that kills its children has no future.

I ask for God's Mercy and love upon our undeserving nation. We proudly rejected God and have chosen abortion-president-elect Obama. Indeed, January 20, 2009 will be an incredibly sad day. Have mercy on us, Lord. We have sinned against you.

58 Comments

Hello All,

I have a really great post at "The Doctrine of Original Intent" That explains this bill and how un-Constitutional it is, as well as how Abortion itself is un-Constitutional. Let me know what you think.

As Always Thanks for being involved, Many Blessings, Shane

"Standing Strong" & "Closing Ranks"
and still in the "Hunt For Red November"

This is horrible. We must interceed on behalf of President Elect Obama and for the millions of children put to death each year. We, as a nation, which was once Under God, have destroyed over 50 million babies which has exterminated generations!

“The United States was founded on core principles, such as liberty, personal privacy, and equality, which ensure that individuals are free to make their most intimate decisions without governmental interference and discrimination.”

The above statement is a rational proposition; principles are liberty, personal privacy, equality etc, are reasoned values conducive to validate the individual’s freedom. Thus Freedom is not a material aspect, or political ideology, or force. Instead, Freedom has implicit properties preceded by logical reasons of liberty, personal privacy, equality etc.

Freedom of Choice is not a feeling or an emotion, it is a rational decision.

The Freedom of Choice Act assumes a right, but if the reasons given for freedom of choice are material aspects like feelings or popular opinions, then freedom is invalid and the woman cannot terminate her child. It is not inherent, or natural, or inalienable for woman to terminate a life, especially her own children. That is why her right must satisfy the valid precedent conditions of freedom.

How can material freedom which is motivated by political ideology and or selfish ambition rendered a right for one to terminate another is absurd logic only synonymous with materialism of modern socialist liberals.

pete
freedom is not motivated by political ideology.Here's a quote from a web source on the definition of freedom..
' "In philosophy, freedom often ties in with the question of free will. The French philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau asserted that the condition of freedom was inherent to humanity, an inevitable facet of the possession of a soul and sapience, with the implication that all social interactions subsequent to birth imply a loss of freedom, voluntarily or involuntarily. He made the famous quote "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains". Libertarian philosophers have argued that all human beings are always free — Jean-Paul Sartre, for instance, famously claimed that humans are "condemned to be free" — because they always have a choice. Even an external authority can only threaten punishment after an action, not physically prevent a person from carrying out an action. At the other end of the spectrum, determinism claims that the future is inevitably determined by prior causes and freedom is an illusion."
The fact that we were endowed with free will not to be taken away by any ideologies. So we all have free choices and it is not subject to any political party control. Let face the fact that we have a choice to make good or evil decisions in life . some people make evil ones and only God will judge.
Would you prefer that this freedom of choice be outlawed and individuals ability to choose on anything be subject to goverment control..
only sheep will allow this
kit

Thanks Kit, for clarifying the point.
Free will is doing the will of God and not by obedience or obliged whether it’s the law or social expectation. It is when passion becomes intuition through practice that Free Will is a natural trend of character. God does not force you to follow Him. Instead God sets you free and it is your freedom that validates your choice to follow (Him). At the same time you are responsible for the consequences of your action, and not God.

Material Freedom is Political Hegemony and Hedonism, motivated by ideology. The bourgeois thinks he/she has a Conservative right to subordinate the Working Class by manipulating the means of production or invade another country when resources are scarce.
Addiction and craving to fulfil a desire is so powerful, the individual is a slave to his/her needs including the social aspects of selfish ambitions.

In the three layers of Freedom I have layout above, I am obviously therefore referring to ‘Freedom of Choice’ as Rational Freedom that is not influenced by Political ideology, or personal ambitions. Which means it is invalid for women to choose to abort willy nilly or whenever they feel like or because the Liberal movement have approved of it.

I hope that clears my point.

It takes a sick mind to use our free will as an excuse to legalize the slaughter of millions.

THIS COUNTRY IS NOT RUN BY RELIGION...it is not Iran, and there is separation of church and state for a reason.
THERE MAY NOT BE A GOD, so you people have no right to invade the privacy of anyone to determine if she is pregnant and has decided to terminate her pregnancy.
No president can force an abortion, it is people who request them. Maybe your sister, or mother, or daughter. Takes 2 to get pregnant. Why don't the "boys" go to the abortion clinic? Why don't men marry as virgins? But you blame women and a man who hasn't taken office yet.
No problem with McCain who napalmed so many people to death in Viet Nam, or sold out to the VC by making tapes condemning the US? No problem with the Iraq war killing hundreds of thousands, or the problems throughout Africa with so many deaths?
No problem with Republican appointed Supreme Court justices (5) who voted in Roe? No problem with lack of proper education in schools of how to use contraception and where to get it and when to use it and why?
Any question about why the article about the pro choice nun wasn't used above? Same web site!
Who will you blame for abortions if Roe goes?

to the blog: you've pulled 2 of my comments and not printed.....what are you so fearful of? The truth?

So you want a religion run country do you? Do we all wear Berka's?
You blame Obama for what you do. Those are people having abortions, your mothers, sisters, daughters, aunts. Ever wonder why?
50% are under 25, 17% are teens and over 80% are unmarried. Unprotected sex ring a bell? Why don't the boys go to the abortion clinic?
Try education, let them know how to use contraceptives, where to get them, when to use them...whoops, forgot the "church" it's all evil.....except if its a young boy in the parish I guess. Nice double standard we practice.
Blame Obama but not McCain for napalming so many to death or rolling over for the VC. No problem with Bush killing hundreds of thousands in an illegal war and putting us 10 billion a month in debt for it? No problem with his tanking the economy? Taking food off the table of families with kids? Kicking them out of their homes?
Solve the problem before it hits the abortion clinic and you won't have to scapegoat on anyone, not even for ill disguised racist reasons.

Nothing you've said in anyway can justify the slaughter of a single unborn child. Your comments are grimly off point given the magnitude of 49,000,000+ killed. A body count of unimaginable proportions and you continue to build straw man arguments, poison the well, etc. Fallacy after fallacy ... it's getting deep.

If there had never been a war in Iraq, if there had never been a war in Vietnam, if we had strong economic growth, and if we had full employment, liberals would still demand the right to chop up little human beings.

My analysis is based on (Social) Science. The principles of the constitution are rational statements or social values. These social values are not necessarily religious and Social Science is not a religious discipline. To validate a claim under the Constitution therefore has to be objective. It is not valid to apply the Freedom of Choice on the basis of how one feels, her moods, or subjective and unfounded fears or other selfish ambitions. It is thus unconstitutional.

If legislation is passed under the false pretence of the Constitution, then it is nothing more than arbitrary. But it is absurd to regulate moral issues under arbitrary terms. Arbitration imposes on one’s freedom and thus violates the principles of Freedom of Choice, and thus the Constitution.

The only valid choice therefore is not subjective or religious, but rational or objective. The one objective justification of abortion is to save the mother’s life.

Like the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and the Loch Ness Monster, the Constitutional right to abortion is make believe. If it was really in the Constitution, proponents of such violence would actually like the Constitution.

PETE; your arguments are interesting, but Lou thinks you're on the other side. "it is when passion becomes intuition through practice that free will is a natural trend of character". This could be said of people who think there is a god...and why they do.
On the first writing, from where comes the quote? Principles are NOT liberty...and if started with freedom from oppression, what of slavery?
Privacy and equality aren't used to VALIDATE, perhaps to define is all.
Freedom of choice (in anything) is a given, not a decision. I have the freedom to buy a house. What's the decision about that freedom? I may choose to buy or not, but that's not the "choice" you're talking about. You are trying to link a freedom given to bad reasons used in exercising that freedom. Doesn't compute!
Also, you are superimposing YOUR value system to decide if the reasons given by a woman (you always leave the men out) for an abortion are legitimate. If you believe they are not, then you travel on to stating the freedom is invalid. But, if you are wrong, would you assume all abortions then would be valid uses of that freedom to choose? I'd like to know what gives you or anyone the right to decide that a Supreme Court decision is invalid? You live in a country where you accept the type of government we have, but when something doesn't suit you, you use the government doublespeak to rationalize your not going along with the law! Why?
What if there is no God? Would your feelings on abortion be different? Mine would not. I firmly believe that man has to do what is good for man as "god" doesn't show up much.
If you don't want abortions, don't have one! Since I might think home ownership is a materialistic thing (I don't), I could say the freedom to own one is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.

Hi Marylin, thanks for your comments.

[[PETE; your arguments are interesting, but Lou thinks you're on the other side. "it is when passion becomes intuition through practice that free will is a natural trend of character". This could be said of people who think there is a god...and why they do.]]

I’m not sure what you’re proposing. The reasoning is in advanced form and we assumed that those who pursue Ethical arguments are informed of details. It will take a couple of pages to explain.

Passion is subjective, when it is mastered through trial and errors, reason and rhyme, one doesn’t have to think about doing what is right. By practise through long time, the word of God becomes second nature, or intuitive. We live it, and we become the living word of God quantified by what we do. St Paul refers to a Freedom of the Spirit, pure and innocent.

[[On the first writing, from where comes the quote? Principles are NOT liberty...and if started with freedom from oppression, what of slavery?]]

The quote in the passage is on my first post, a link is provided in the same argument by someone else, which explored the terms of “Intend and the Constitution”. I don’t have to provide this if you have done your research.

[[ Privacy and equality aren't used to VALIDATE, perhaps to define is all.]]

This is so not it! The quote in the passage listed liberty, privacy, and etc as values preceding Freedom. It’s like the properties of freedom. When the properties of freedom add up, it should equal to whole freedom. And that is how logic is validated when its properties are legally followed in order (to conclude a valid outcome). It is a rational entity.

A material freedom is subjective, that is; you can do whatever you want as you wish without a valid reason.

If someone forces you to do anything, then you are not in control therefore you are not free. It’s like obedience, that you are following orders rather than making an informed decision yourself.

I have also mentioned that addiction is doing what your cravings are demanding, and you are not in control of your action; chocolate, smoking, drug addiction, etc therefore you are not free. I have explained the properties of self construct on my website.

Abortion is a moral issue. And the Freedom of Choice according to the Constitution is a rational entity. It is not referring to material freedom where the individual chooses as he/she pleases, or under the influence of some addiction, or forced by someone else. It has to be validated by removing all those aspects from making a rational choice.

And the rest of your response doesn’t make logical sense.

This is Philosophy, and understanding logical arguments can help although I totally appreciate your effort. You’d make a good Ethicist since you care, and putting your concerns in philosophical perspectives will demand followers.

For your info, I'm a Catholic and trying to live up to it. I don't impose my belief on anyone at all. Rather I work to enable some people make up their own minds about what they wish to pursue in order to improve their positions and out of trouble. I study Social Relations and Philosophy, and particularly like Metaphysics. You can say that I'm a critic of social issues especially clarifying where the responsibilites rest between the state and consumers.

God bless...

"And the Freedom of Choice according to the Constitution is a rational entity."

There is nothing in the Constitution about a right to abortion or it would be quoted often. It is an irrational thought to think otherwise.

For Lou
You are correct on that Lou but there is a right in the constitution to be left alone and not be persuade to believe what you say. That is what CHOICE is. You have a choice to pick good or evil. God according to some believers gave humans a free will so if a person freely wants to do evil who is responsible for the evil deed? Is it God himself since he allowed the person to do evil? To quote your own words"It is an irrational thought to think otherwise."Therefore it follows that God is responsible for abortions if that is the evil deed.Your continued gory descriptions of abortion techniques just shows your evil mind and sick obsession with death. Lou how did you get your sick mind? Was it your free will?
kit

"And the Freedom of Choice according to the Constitution is a rational entity."

You are doing a great job in confusing the issue it's obviously you're not genuine, for all I know you could be one of the same person!

Just in case you are genuinely dum, the above statement is a pro life choice. It means the Constitution is a rational document. Freedom of Choice therefore is a rational value. To use the Freedom of Choice to grant a right to abort is un-constitutional.

And incase you are Obama's followers, let me tell you that he will be the first African man to officially stain the US Constitution when he signs the Freedom of Choice to abort.

So you are deceiving no one but yourself.

Pete
Why obama? Obama won't stain the constitution it will be guys like you and i who will support our congress in voting for the bill FOCA.. It hasn't been voted on yet.Why hasn't God intervene in this grave matter when so many abortions accur every year. Is it because He gave us free will to choose evil over good? So if we want to prevent abortions we need to be active and write to our congressperson before the bill is voted on. Will you blame God if the bill passes since he gave us free will to choose?
kit

It's not a good idea to call people "dum," when you can't even spell the word.

"You are correct on that Lou but there is a right in the constitution to be left alone and not be persuade to believe what you say."

You're making it up as you struggle to find a depraved right to dismember little human beings. It isn't there.

Comments here are getting far out: Lou is writing to Lou and instead of referencing Pete is off it....
TO PETE; You got a new toy, words and when you learn to use them, you might have even more fun.
To get to a correct end, you have to start with a good beginning. You start with the idea of a God. I don't. I look at the food chain where the bigger animals tear apart the smaller to survive. What or who designed such cruelty?
I look at the Crusades and watch what people do with your kind of premise and "logic" and find it pretty horrible.
I look at a supreme court decision decided with a pro vote by 7 (5R 2D) and a 2 against (1D 1R). These people had more education, school and life, than you have and they came up with the constitutionality of abortion. I will defer to them, not you.
You try to throw the whole soup kettle in instead of using good logic. It's your play time, so enjoy, but remember who you are writing to...Lou still doesn't get it....and try basic English. Also re-read before posting please.
The issue isn't whether in your mind or mine, abortion is constitutional. The issue is how do you stop unwanted pregnancies. People will and have had abortions when it isn't legal, for centuries in the past and probably the future.
You are all going at the problem and not the solution! Why? Sex causes pregnancy and unwanted pregnancies are the cause of abortions. Bad hair days arent! Wrong size shoes arent! Driving the wrong car isn't! It is unwanted pregnancies!
When you finally face the cause, only then will you work on a solution. I knew of abortions before 73, so RvW didn't cause them. They happened before Obama was born, so he isn't the reason. They took place before the US was a US, so that's not it.
We can play an illogical language game and get nowhere. We can listen to Lou rave on about how a fetus is killed, won't get us anywhere. Solve the problem!

When BO takes office it will mean a substantial increase in the number of victims on Death Roe. Most of them will be poor black and brown children.

According to athiest Nat Hentoff, at least one million people survived the abortuaries because of Republican policies, namely, the Hyde Amendment. The Hyde amendment prevents liberals from spending American federal tax funds to chop up little human beings. Liberals have been salivating for years to get their hands on that money to pay their frienly child butcher. If BO has his way, they'll get it. And poor unborn children will pay for it with their lives.

Wow,
Lou You focus on 1 issue as if its the only or the most important.

LOU
There are just as much GOP for choice as Liberals Lou..like janine wrote i think you are a racist or a white skin head bigot. BO will make you life better and decrease abortion so you won't have so much hate for black people.I hope the hyde amendment is voted out so people can get help when needed.
Be like the other GOP fellows. see ..http://www.gopchoice.org/


Tom,
Why is it that a vote for anybody other than BO is considered racist? just asking, i hear it all the time.. I myself cannot bring myself to vote for anybody whose pro-abort, it is my number 1 issue, 50 million dead. Does that make me a racist? hardly.......Never assume it just makes an a$$ out of u and me.

If your going to come onto this blog running your mouth and putting up things such as gopforchoice.org as if there isn't such a thing as Democratsforlife.org your going to lose credibility fast.
Come here with facts cite your sources.
Marilyn and I trade barbs regularly, in the end it comes down to fundamental beliefs. I believe life is too precious to be ended, especially in such haneous ways as the methods used. I believe that there should not be a choice, that you are free to do in this country as you will so long as you do not impede on another, abortion to me is obviously impeding on another, it is killing, no different then shooting somebody on the street. Marilyn does not believe that, she believes that a baby is not a person until it is born and the mother chose it to be born.. My point is, stick to the facts, you can express your views but they are only your views, going after somebody as a racist just because they won't vote for the most pro-abortion radical the country has yet seen isn't going to help your case at all, it just makes you look ignorant...

Pablo,
These people are hysterical and irrational. I'm told that I hate black people by someone who calls for an end to the Hyde amendment, a Republican policy that protects poor children from abortionists.

If I really hated blacks I'd insist that we send money to African nations to abort their children. I'd insist that we pay American abortionists to abort poor children. I'd send my children to expensive private schools so they wouldn't have to associate with common poor kids. Then I'd see to it that not a single penny helped those poor kids get out of schools I wouldn't let my kids near. Wait a minute, I sound just like BO.

Pablo
Cool down my man. My comment was directed at LOU who is a racist by the fact that he is always picking on black and brown people. make fun of Mr Obama's family etc. You might not be a racist and that's good.Not voting for Obama is not being racist it's being not caring for the welfare of the country.What a worst mess would this country be in if the GOP had won.Would you want Palin as a potential president? Only the far right extremist would have liked that.The gopforchoice link was to inform Lou that there are still some common sense GOP's who favor freedom and choice not only Liberals as LOU keeps hamering. I keep to the facts but the prolife group keep bending and misrepresnting the facts.Check out RHRealityCheck.org..facts vs fiction most of prolife stuff is fiction.
Your last sentence in your comment is innacurate as far as my comment to Lou and it also shows that you do not fully understand the pro-choice movement. Now Bush is making changes to the HHS rules on healthcare . Even contraception will be considered abortion..Is this going too far? Some religions also consider this as abortion.
Adios

Hey Pablo
Now you know that Lou is a racist..check his comment today if that's not racist than than moon is square..

Vince December 9, 2008

I have heard & read the Conversion story of Stojan Adasevic, and find it very powerful. Regretably, we have elected an ultra abortionist to become president, which we can't reverse. The only remaining aveue I see for us now is prayer for the influence from God. I would hope that Mr Adasevic could be an instrument for God to influence President Elect Obama to at least some degree of conversion toward Pro=Life Beliefs.

Can you provide an address to reach Mr Adasevic by E-mail or via postal service, to request that he personally share his coversion story with President Elect Obama, preferably before he is Sworn into office?

Vince,

You're wasting your time. All the information in the world about the brutality of abortion won't sway Obama. This is a guy who has a brother who lives in a shack made of garbage. This is a guy who contemplated the need to possibly kill his own preborn grandchild. This is a guy who argued against the expectation that doctors should save fully born abortion survivors. He is a sick man. That an abortionist quit because one time he found a still beating heart in the bloody remains of a chopped up baby won't move him one bit.

Kit, regarding your statement, "You are correct on that Lou but there is a right in the constitution to be left alone and not be persuade to believe what you say."

There is a right to be "left alone" as you put it but only as long as you do not infringe upon or take away another's basic rights and freedoms, as long as you do not break the laws. You will NOT be "left alone" if you kill someone (take away their right to life). You will not be "left alone" if you exercise your right to free speech and slander or libel someone in the process.

You who keep quoting this "freedom to be left alone" issue keep forgetting that it has ALWAYS been in the constitution that you will have your freedoms taken away from you if you try to take them away from another.

That is why it is so critical that Roe v. Wade never answered the question of "WHEN DOES HUMAN LIFE BEGIN?" because the Supreme Court justices didn't HAVE the scientific answers to that question. It has long been proven since then that science DOES have the answer and that answer is that human life, yours, mine, everyone reading here, began and still begins at the moment of fertilization. Nothing that a "Freedom of Choice Act" does is allowed to negate that scientific fact, but it damn well will do just that. Then, we will have officially decreed that we're living in hell on earth, folks.

And Pete, you do sound like you are FOR the FOCA, not against. "Freedom of Choice is not a feeling or an emotion, it is a rational decision." In light of what I have just pointed out, the FOCA is anything BUT rational.

And Marylin, no one ever said we wanted a country "run by religion" but you have forgotten that this country was founded and its constitution written keeping in mind the principles of God as Creator, and a faith in, a belief in that Creator as one who blessed us with the founding of this country. Remember, we all began over the argument with England, among other freedoms, to have to freedom to choose and profess and live our own faiths, not the Church of England.

Isn't it interesting that so many of us, like you Marylin, now argue, rather hysterically, too, about our "right" to abandon our founding fathers' ideals and our very roots?

Marylin, you don't speak too many truths, you speak a lot of media-fed platitudes. We've heard all the "right to privacy" arguments you call truth before. What you don't know is that the Constitution never actually lists or mentions a "right to privacy." Go look it up for yourself. Even Roe v. Wade explicitly states that there is no such "right to privacy" stated in the Constitution or any of the government's defining documents. There certainly wasn't any such thing as related to abortion as it was UNTHINKABLE to the founding fathers that anyone would DO such a thing!

You who believe abortion is a woman's right to privacy, that it is only her own body, and not a completely separate body with its own DNA, don't know the truth, so please do not whine here about your posts disappearing.

Bring intelligent, informed, educated debate, or don't bring it.

Lou
Here you go again..racist comments and lies..don't you ever quit? don't you feel guilty after repeating the same lies over an over again. Why not help Vince in trying to contact Mr Adasevic.That would be a positive thing to do for your cause.Maybe your cause is only to smear Mr Obama.In Mr Adasevic case the rules in his country for perfoming abortions were less restrictive than US rules. He was wrong to perform abortions late in the pregmancy.I can see where he would have nightmares.I would suggest that Vince contact the hospital where Mr Adasevic was working or search the web for his location.
I will try to find what Vince is looking for. You can help also. Mr Obama has not been sworn in yet .So your and Vince comments that he is the ultra abortionist president is only to devide the country and to put fear in people.You will not convert any prochoicer to your cause with your smear tactics..Most people are smarter and can recognize your deceptive comments..

Tom, I'd advise you to quit this kind of incendiary and warrantless accusation or you will be banned. Lou has never once made any statement that could remotely be racist or bigoted. In fact, in defending against abortion, he's more unbiased and anti-racist than you, when it's an extraordinarily much higher proportion of unborn minority babies that are aborted than white unborn.

Marylin: you wrote "Lou is writing to Lou and instead of referencing Pete is off it." Then you wrote "try basic English" to Lou. Quit throwing stones, girl, you live in a glass house.

You wrote about the Supreme court, saying, "These people had more education, school and life, than you have and they came up with the constitutionality of abortion. I will defer to them, not you."

I addressed that above in the comment just before this. They knew NOTHING about the science when they made those decisions (do you know what the second one was, without googling it?). They didn't even address the question of when human life begins. HAD THEY DONE SO, AND HAD THEY HAD THE TRUE SCIENTIFIC FACTS THAT A HUMAN LIFE BEGINS AT CONCEPTION AND NOT A MOMENT AFTERWARD, THEY COULD NOT HAVE DECIDED AS THEY DECIDED, IN ANY SINGLE ABORTION-ISSUE CASE, EVER. PERIOD.

Honestly, you have so much misinformation in your heads, it's making mine hurt. Stop making yourselves look so uninformed, go do some reading on sources other than the ones you usually do. There is a whole world of truth you know nothing about, Marilyn, Tom. Stop wasting your and our time, trying to toss more stuff up to us that we've already disproven many times before, unless and until YOU defend and answer for your mistaken beliefs. You have a lot of researching to do before you're ready to stop looking as ill-informed as you do.

You could start with the Sidebar of After Abortion blog, or the sections called Science / Health, ABORTION STATS, "STUDIES", MENTIONS, MYTHS, in the Abortion Pundit blog's sidebar.

I could give a rat's a** about eyeballs on my site, folks. Those links are simply full of objective studies and THEIR links. Don't say you were not given some help in how to start your real homework.

But if you (continue to) choose not to DYOR, that is your "choice. Just don't expect to earn much respect here. You won't be hijacking these comboxes with your arrogant ignorance and warrantless personal attacks, that's all.

Tom, I BEG you, stop being so ignornant! Just two answers to your latest diatribe: Obama DID say that he wouldn't want to "punish" his daughters with an unwanted baby, his own grandchild, should they become pregnant. Obama DID "contemplate the need to possibly kill his own preborn grandchild"!

Go listen to the audio of Obama when he "argued against the expectation that doctors should save fully born abortion survivors"! We posted it on this very website awhile back. You can hear it in his own words, man!

Just stop being so ignorant, Tom, please!

Anyone pointing out the truth that Obama IS in fact "the ultra abortionist president" is only pointing out the truth that you refuse to accept!

By choosing Obama, it is YOU who have "devided [sic] the country." By denying these truths about the man, you are choosing catastrophe and fear for this country, not us.

We won't be a forum for that, here on this blog. If you want to spew your own misguided and baseless hatred of anyone who sees the truth, and your blinded idolatry of Obama, you will have to go elsewhere. You won't ever see the light or the truth.

Don't believe Tom. He is ignorant on the subject of abortion.

Adasevic aborted a child only four months since conception. While most victims of abortions in America are younger, killing a child this age is common. According to Guttmacher, 4.6% of the victims are are 16 weeks or older. That's 2,300,000 of the 50 million since Death Roe. It happens many, many times each day.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

Well before their 16th week, the baby has a face with nose, eyes, ears and mouth. She has a beating heart. She has her own fingerprints. She kicks and swims. She sucks her thumb.

Children of this age and older are precisely the age that partial-birth abortion was invented for. Their joints and other tissue are a bit stronger and cutting them to pieces is more difficult. Delivering them feet first, stabbing them in the head and sucking their brains out is a convenience. When GWB signed the partial-birth abortion law, BO grieved. He grieved not for the children than had lost their lives, but for the restriction on his cherished right to slaughter them.

Marylin, you have been banned. Stop trying to publish here. Your arrogance, your derision, your attacking comments are not welcome here. If you persist further action will be taken.

Friends;

No law goes into the abortion chamber. No statistics. A woman and a child go in. Why? What is the sorrowful path that brings them there? Who fails her in her personal life, what are the cruel circumstances, that this woman comes to kill her baby? It isn't the law that does this. The law may or may not allow it, but darker forces propel her there.

Yes, we try to advocate for good laws. But putting faith in laws -- "in princes, in the sons of men" only leads to desperation, division, despair, and endless, fruitless arguing.

We cannot change everything. We won't save millions of lives, perhaps not even tens. What can we do? Love those around us. Reach out to those who are isolated, suffering, friendless, jobless. Create a culture of life and warmth around you, and you will save lives, regardless of the president, the laws, the constitution, all of it. Saint Seraphim of Sarov said: "Acquire a spirit of inner peace, and thousands around you will be saved". Any of you who have ever met a truly holy person will have no trouble understanding that statement.

Remember that even Jesus -- God incarnate (yes, not everyone believes that, but I know what I know) -- even Jesus did not heal everyone in the world. Or even everyone in Judea. Or everyone in the crowds around him. He healed only those whom he encountered face to face, in a relationship, and only those he had the daily, human energy for. Why? He was showing us the way.

You can only act in love toward those who are really in your life. You cannot love an abstract child, or mother, or young father, let alone millions. You can only love and influence people whose names and faces you know -- those that the Scriptures call your 'neighbor'.

Mother Teresa did this. What was the point of going into the middle of total despair and death? Into the midst of suffering millions to help a handful? She was imitating her Lord. As he told us to do.

At the judgment seat, does God say: "Did you write letters to the congressmen? Did you elect the best leaders? Did you hold all the correct facts and opinions in your head?" No. He says to the righteous,

"I was hungry and you fed me. I was naked and you clothed me. I was in prison, and you visited me."

"When did we do this, Kyrie?"

"When you did it to the least of my brethren, you did it to me."

This is the true God of the Christians! Why won't we listen to him? If we all -- just the Christians! -- obeyed him, instead of making ourselves comfortable, there would be no abortion. Let me say it again: if we Christians obeyed our own God, there would be no abortion.

Don't despair, brothers and sisters. Pray for good and just government, do what you can, and give your very blood in love for your fellow man. You can do no more. Work to kindle love in those around you for little children, help those who have children, and lighten their burden. Don't give in to despair for the ones who have already been lost. They are in unimaginable bliss.

There is some value in letting people see how nutty people like M are.

I worry when people attack a prospective president on one issue. There are many issues facing this nation.
We have a lot of stupid things going on. In Georgia, a woman wearing a scarf (Muslim I'd guess) was cited for contempt because she wouldn't go against her religion and remove the scarf. Is this Christian?
Near Sacramento, California, a woman was asked to leave her church because she had Obama's name on her car. Is this Christian?
On wall street one fellow thought it great to steal from everyone for years. Is this Christian?
We had a group who got in power in this country who wanted to go to war and they did. So many people killed and injured. Was this Christian?
We abort babies and ignore kids living on the streets and know kids are abused. Are we Christian?
We shouldn't have to be Christian or Muslim to know this country has many problems. We mistreat gays, people of color, people who don't believe as we do and berate a man who is coming to the presidency. We don't give him a chance. Why?
If what I read of the numbers of abortions is accurate, I'd like an answer to this: If stopped (abortion), in the next 10 years there would be something like 12 million unwanted babies. Who will take that many children and raise them?

This is more than 3800 issues every day. More than 3800 innocent babies are being slaughtered a day in American. In one year we kill more babies (1.4 Million) than all the American soldiers who have died (1.2 Million) in all the wars that American has been involved in. The leading cause of death in America each year is Abortion. This has been true every year since 1973. Check for yourself, these numbers are available on the internet from government and research web sites.

We have killed more babies in America than Hitler killed in concentration camps. We sent the concentration camp leaders to jail. Why did we send them to jail? Because what they were doing was evil and wrong.

Why do you not know these numbers. Our media does not report the deaths from abortion. They report the murders and deaths from war but not abortion. We all know why this is not reported. It is ugly. It is evil. It is not love. It is something that they want to hide. Say what you may but you can not justify a society that kills thousands of innocent babies each year.

If these deaths were after delivery of the baby then everyone involved would be put in jail. Everyone that knew of it would want the murderers to be put in jail. It would be on every news station.

Support abortion is supporting a society of death in America. I am embarrassed that our country continues this poor example to the world by killing innocent babies.

Supporting Pro Choice is supporting a Choice to Kill Innocent Babies. God made it clear that we should not kill. Even if you do not believe in God then it is still clear that killing an innocent baby is wrong. It is evil.

The TRUTH is that Abortion kills thousand every day. Abortion is murder of an innocent baby. It is an intrensic evil that will destroy a society. Our country should not uphold and support something this evil.

Hello LaVega

Read your comments and i have a question for you to answer
What is your solution to end abortion?

First let me say that I am not thrilled with abortion... I am thrilled with God and His infinate wisdom to grant us each His Free Will to grow in His Love and His Mercy. I only wish that all of you pro-life children of God would spend as much time on healing those who were not aborted and left here on earth instead to suffer a lifetime of pain and suffering, instead of condeming all those who have had abortions and adding to the hate and cruelty of this earth, take that time and help to heal a child of nine that has been raped by her own father or perhaps raped by some other person and became pregnant with a BABY and forced to have the child at such a tender young age... When life gives you lemons make lemonade... so instead of ranting and raving about all the children that have been aborted and IMMEDIATLEY went to be with God their Father... actually help those that are here on earth that were not aborted... that need your help... IT IS SO EASY TO SCREAM ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAPPEN... BUT IT IS VERY HARD TO ACTUALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS WORLD. Let's aid in the lives of those who are here now... and need our help...

Sincerely,
Nora J.

It's been well established that conservatives, who are typically pro-life, send way more money to charity than liberals.

- The Obama's earned $1,200,000+ from 2000-04, but gave less than 1% to charity.

- Before they BOs went to DC, they lived in a mansion. BO has a brother who lives in a shack made of garbage.

- Joe Biden lives on a waterfront mansion. According to his released tax records, he's never given even $1,000 to charity in any year.

- Pro-lifers provide financial assistance, health care and emotional support to pregnant women and their children through 100s (1000s?) of pregnancy counseling centers. Pro-abortionists provide chemicals, vacuums, scaples and wrenches to poison, shred, slice and pull thier little ones apart. And then they try to shut the pregnancy counseling centers down.

- GWB sent money to Africa to kill AIDS and malaria. BO sent money to Africa to kill little brown and black human beings.

- BO, stretching hatred of little ones to new bloody limits, argued in the IL legislature that it was unconsitutional to require health care professionals to try and save the life of an abortion survivor.
http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST033001.pdf

lj
where did you get your facts on BO and Biden on charity?PLease send me the facts. If this is a lie let me know. I was told that conservatives are greedy and only want handouts from the government.Is that true lj? I've read most of your comments on these blogs..you keep repeating the same untruths and fear tactics.So what if BO's brother lives in a shack. What is that to mean?Are you one of those reborn christians who have been saved but quite can't figure what it means? It appears that you were reborn with a misguided mind about abortion. Would you prefer ilegal abortion so the mothers could suffer in some back alley bleeding to death.? Be a better prolifer and help BO make this country great and free from intolerant people. this is a time for change . change it lou

George Obama is B.O.'s brother. He lives in a shack made of garbage in a disease and crime infested slum.

Barak Obama, 07/27/08: I am my brother's keeper.

Normally I do not provide references for posters who insist I'm lying and won't do simple research for themselves, but this is too good an opportunity.

Between 1998 and 2007, Biden reported income of $2,450,042. During this time he reported charitable contributions of $3,690. That's way less than 1%.
Joe Biden lives in a waterfront mansion.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/09/biden-releases.html

Between 2000 and 2006, the Obama's reported income of $3,857,558 and charitable contributions of $148,392, less than 4% of their income. If you look a take a close look you'll see that before he became a senator, they gave almost nothing to charity. Like Biden, they gave less than 1%.
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/03/obama-releases.html

Lucy might also do well to read some of Dr. Bernard Nathanson's works. Nathanson ran perhaps the largest abortuary in America and was a founder of NARAL. He admitted long ago that there were few maternal deaths due to illegal abortion just before Death Roe. They just simply invented numbers and passed them along to accomplices in the press.

The CDC has documented that in 1972, the last year before Death Roe, 39 women died from complications of illegal abortions in all of the USA. (24 died from legal abortions.) Hysterical pro-abortionists would have us believe it was in the 1,000s or 10,000s.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5212a1.htm#tab19 see table 19

Greetings lj..
Your last para. stated that there were more deaths occured for illegal abortion(39) than from legal abortion(24).. therefore legal abortion would be better for the country..common sense.
Many people give to other causes which are not reported on tax forms..i wouldn't believe everything you read. the irs forms only give what is reported and at high income brackets the deductions for charity don't reduce your tax liability so why report the stuff..only republicans do that to gain the sympathy of the religious right nuts.

Lucy,
In all seriousness, have someone else check your logic before posting.

1. You cannot draw the conclusion that legal abortions were safer in 1972 than illegal ones because we don't know how many illegal abortions were performed. We would need to know the death rate, but since illegal abortions weren't reported, we can't calculate it.

2. "...high income brackets the deductions for charity don't reduce your tax liability so why report the stuff..."
You couldn't be more wrong. The higher the tax bracket you're in, the more helpful deductions are in reducing your taxes.
A person paying a 30% tax rate, reduces income taxed at 30%. A person paying a 10% rate, only reduces income taxed at 10%. Think about it this way the next time you go shopping, ask youself if you want 10% off or 30% off.

The Obama's and Biden's are not charitable people who care for the poor. Their own documentation provides the evidence. They're the Ebenezer Scrooge/Jacob Marley presidential team.

The catalog for philanthropy rates states according to how charitable their citizens are. After the 2004 election someone else coded them either red (GWB) or blue (Kerry). All of Kerry's states were below average. GWB won all of the above average states and then some.

I haven't been able to find their state rankings since this last election, so I used the rankings from before and compared them with the outcome from this past election. In an almost perfect pattern, the states that went from red in 2004 to blue in 2008 were the least charitable red states. The two exceptions were Alaska and Arizona, for obvious reasons.

Put it this way, one of the best predictors of how a state will vote in a presidential election, is it's citizen's charitable giving. Charitable states are solidly red. Uncharitable ones are solidly blue.


lj your a joke..pardon my language but your comments are BS..i never seen that much misinformation in any postings. I can draw the conclusion that less death would occur if abortion remain legal. Better health care is a good reason.
What is the connection of charitable contributions to abortions? Like i said in my previous posting what makes you sure that B.O. and Biden reported all their charitable contributions.
Your last statements about red vs blue states is just plain idiotic.Is that the reason why this country went down the toilet when the red states have been in control..you bring up the most stupid stuff..stick with the abortion issue..your other comments make you look like a moron....get it!!

Syracuse professor, Dr. Arthur Brooks, has thoroughly researched charitable giving. Conservative people consistently give more money and time to charity than liberals. They give more to the church, to poor people, to sick people, and they even give more blood.
http://faculty.maxwell.syr.edu/acbrooks/

Here is the Catalog for Philanthropy rankings of our states. All of them in the top half went for GWB. Kerry's were all in the bottom half. That pattern changed little in this last election.
http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org/cfp/db/generosity.php?year=2005

"What is the connection of charitable contributions to abortions?" Conservatives give time and money to support pregnancy counseling centers to help mother and child. Liberals try to stick a padlock on their doors.

Anyone who can write, "...at high income brackets the deductions for charity don't reduce your tax liability..." has no business calling someone else a "moron."

lj
Not not proving anything by the information submitted in your links.Your added statements are only your fabrications. Conservatives are more greedy as you know so perhaps they can afford to give more. Still the conservatives are also not truthful sometimes. So what has this to do with Obama on abortion? After reading lots of your comments it's hard to believe you.It's your comments which are moronic and silly.

lucy, lj has provided substantial proofs when you challenged him/her to GIVE you those very proofs, then you dismiss them by saying "i wouldn't believe everything you read" all while YOU state "I was told that conservatives are greedy and only want handouts from the government."

Why don't YOU do some real homework instead of buying what "you are told"?

You accuse lj of "repeating the same untruths and fear tactics" when it is actually YOU who have done nothing but that, by parroting back what "you were told" without citing any reliable, objective sources yourself!

Lucy, you have no answer to the facts lj has put forth. Because there isn't any answer. You just refuse to accept these truths and facts or refuse to acknowledge them when your challenges are put down.

(continued)

And both of you, lucy and Nora, like countless prochoice folks before you and countless more to come, toss out the old canard Planned Parenthood has you all believing: "What is your solution to end abortion?" and "[why don't you] actually help those that are here on earth that were not aborted".

I think by now you both CAN be faulted for NOT knowing that 2+ million American couples want to adopt children each year. Neither you, lucy, nor you Nora J. perhaps get The Dallas Morning News, which reported this on January 28, 2003, in "Is Adoption Still the Forgotten Option?" by Terry Eastland. And of course, my local liberal paper never reported it:

While the number of people waiting to adopt an infant of any description is unknown, [President of the National Council for Adoption Thomas] Atwood thinks there may be as many as 2 million couples who would be willing to take a newborn into their home--if one were available. Keep that number in mind as you ponder the many abortions in America--1.31 million in 2000…Note also that most abortions prevent the birth of what would have been ‘normal’ babies. To the extent pregnant women considering abortion were to choose adoption instead, the number of abortions would decline.
So you don't get that Texas paper. So what? Why DON'T you know that there are this many people wanting to adopt in this country? Why don't you get educated about this for yourselves, instead of swallowing the lies and garbage that the media, Planned Parenthood, NARAL and NOW want you to believe? Don't you realize how ignorant and unaware of the facts you really truly are? Why doesn't that bother you, when there are so many people who do need our help--not just OURS, but YOURS too?

Don't take my word for it. THE US GOVERNMENT knows the truth and wrote about it: the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) publication (a US GOVERNMENT AGENCY) "Advance Data: Adoption, Adoption Seeking, and Relinquishment for Adoption in the United States (May 11, 1999)" stated that: …5.6 million of women who ever considered adoption are still seeking or planning to adopt or would consider adoption in the future, even if they may not be currently seeking or planning to adopt.

SO: THAT's part of the solution to ending abortion.

And there are TONS of Christians and nonChristians who have been helping the women with all that goes with having a baby and then giving it up for adoption (or keeping it if they choose), much more than 99.9999999% of prochoice people have helped them.

Before you continue to make yourselves look foolish on THIS issue, go read a few of the links in the table at the very top of this blog.

You two have just proved that you are not pro-choice and that you ARE PRO-ABORTION. If you were really "pro-choice", you'd look for ways to help US help women and children who CHOOSE the OTHER CHOICE. You would BE part of the help, instead of coming here just to accuse us of "condeming all those who have had abortions and adding to the hate and cruelty of this earth".

Hell's bells, Nora J., don't you even read up a little on who you're attacking before you say that??

I had an abortion, and came to regret it decades later.

The fact is that " all of us pro-life children of God DO spend BOATLOADS of time on healing those who were not aborted and left here on earth to PREVENT having them "suffer a lifetime of pain and suffering."

What have YOU done to help them?

Oh, dear readers isn't it interesting that when I finally had the time to do a cross-check, it appears that the troll who used the name TOM in December and also tried to post as JIM and then several times as LUCY and was banned in December, has been posting most recently at the very same IP address as LUCY, and isn't a prolifer at all...

S/he has been trying to be a troll on this blog for about 2 months now, at least.

Goodbye, Tom/Jim/Lucy. You've really got way too much time on your hands. Really, when are you going to grow up and get a life? How old are you, about 16?

I dont believe that Barrak Obamas an abortion president. Robert, Dont.

EDITED BY BLOG OWNERS:

New TROLL ALERT: "JANE DOE" = "ROBERT"

Comment on "The Abortion President" by Robert. 205.188.117.79
Comment on "VATICAN: BISHOPS MUST REFUSE COMMUNION TO PRO-ABORTION POLITICIANS" by Jane Doe. 205.188.117.79
Comment on "Mr. President, God Doesn't Condone Empty Words" by Jane Doe. 205.188.117.79

BHO:

- Almost immediately after taking the oath of office, he ended the Mexico City policy which protected poor children in foreing lands from being aborted with American tax dollars. Thanks to BO, little brown and black human beings wom't be permitted to take their first breath.

- He has spoken quite casually about possibly aborting his own grandchild.

- He argues that a law protecting abortion survivors is unconstitutional.

- He almost weeped when the US Supreme Court said that there is no constitutional right to stab a baby in the skull and suck her brains out.

New TROLL ALERT: "JANE DOE" = "ROBERT"

Comment on "The Abortion President" by Robert. 205.188.117.79 12 hours ago
Comment on "VATICAN: BISHOPS MUST REFUSE COMMUNION TO PRO-ABORTION POLITICIANS" by Jane Doe. 205.188.117.79
Comment on "Mr. President, God Doesn't Condone Empty Words" by Jane Doe. 205.188.117.79

Nora J. | January 31, 2009 9:44 AM is what this is in response to.
Nora,
That is very insensitive of you to basically say since they are now with God so don't be bothered by how it happened. Just like it would be insensitive to say that to anyone grieving a child that was abducted and killed, in a car accident or fire or any other fatal event went to be with God so forget and it doesn't matter so don't think about it. The whole point in this discussion is about how the misunderstood meaning of the free will each of us has is being described as a right to do what we please openly or secretly without regard for others. Even the women aborting their own babies are victimized and should be protected from themselves. Yes we should all love one another and care for the children who survived. That is exactly what the goal here is with overturning Roe V Wade or atleast putting more limitations not less on abortions. Changing the laws of the land will make a positive impact on the level of crimes committed by the residents. Abortion would decrease if physicians were not legally permitted to perform those horrific and traumatic procedures.
Grace and Peace to All,




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