I'm watching now, forming an opinion but thought I'd let our readers comment first. Have at it.
Update: Thanks for the comments. First, from an expectations stand point the debate was about Palin. Biden is "good ole Joe" and is accepted as a loose cannon who gets the job done for Democrats. With 36 years of experience I think we all know what he is about.
Palin took a beating during the last week and this debate became her litmus test, her day of reckoning as the underdog.
Perhaps some thought Palin would be a nervous weakling. Instead she was relaxed, confident and, at times, took charge. No major mistakes, although she fell back to the McCain talking points more frequently than I would have liked and certainly did have the command of either legislative history or international relations that Biden presented.
However, the problem with many of Biden's confident assertions is that they were either wrong or fabricated. He knows how to spin a tale and Kevin McCullough was counting (he's up to 10 lies).
Update: Looks like Dr. Melissa has Kevin beat: 14 lies and counting.
And, there is so much more Palin could have said: HEY! YOU! DEMOCRAT VOTERS! WAKE. UP!
Update: Michelle Malkin is delighted:
Update: Thanks for the comments. First, from an expectations stand point the debate was about Palin. Biden is "good ole Joe" and is accepted as a loose cannon who gets the job done for Democrats. With 36 years of experience I think we all know what he is about.
Palin took a beating during the last week and this debate became her litmus test, her day of reckoning as the underdog.
Perhaps some thought Palin would be a nervous weakling. Instead she was relaxed, confident and, at times, took charge. No major mistakes, although she fell back to the McCain talking points more frequently than I would have liked and certainly did have the command of either legislative history or international relations that Biden presented.
However, the problem with many of Biden's confident assertions is that they were either wrong or fabricated. He knows how to spin a tale and Kevin McCullough was counting (he's up to 10 lies).
Update: Looks like Dr. Melissa has Kevin beat: 14 lies and counting.
And, there is so much more Palin could have said: HEY! YOU! DEMOCRAT VOTERS! WAKE. UP!
Update: Michelle Malkin is delighted:
Pause to reflect on this: She matched -- and trumped several times -- a man who has spent his entire adult life on the political stage, run for president twice, and as he mentioned several times, chairs the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Sarah Palin looked presidential.
Joe Biden looked tired.
Sarah made history.
Biden is history.
Biden as he was the only one on stage that answered to all questions instead of diverting from reality !
Biden - he answered the questions with eloquence, grace and, perhaps most importantly, facts.
I am still unconvinced about the quality of Palin's intellectual grasp of the complex issues we face. Clearly she was well rehearsed, but she so often didn't answer the question, but presented her prepared speech. As much as I would like to say this changed my opinion of her, I am still concerned.
She didn't do badly, but Biden clearly won. She just isn't qualified, regardless of your perspective on wedge issues.
lol@jeff.. really so when he answered with lies? that constitutes a win? ref: "barrack NEVER said he would sit down with iran". blatant lie. feb07 barrack said he would be open to aggressive no condition talks with the likes of iran.
Palin was down to earth.
The problem with Biden is that he lies at will - perhaps convincingly - and does profusely.
Biden. He answered everything, kept his cool and knew when to shut up. I have to say, though, that Palin looked better than I'd expected (only wandered in circles a couple times)and I don't think she did any more damage to McCain tonight, which has to count for a lot. Still, Biden came off a lot better and he obviously can talk a lot more issues eloquently than Palin can.
It's basically a wash, Republican leaning people will think Palin did better, Democrat leaning will think Biden did because they both evade certain things, and twisted others and with most people being too uninformed to really know what's what they'll be swayed mostly by ideological beliefs. There were no knocks strong enough to persuade the average person from what they're already pre-inclined to believe.
Please, spare us comments about Palin being down to earth. We've seen what voting based on character traits gets us--a trend that seriously needs to end. When it comes to knowledge, experience, policy and outright debate skills, Biden obviously wins.
Clearly Biden was the only one on the stage who understood the questions and answered them. Palin reminded me of Giulliani: noun verb, "energy" instead of noun verb, "9/11".
I don't agree with neither of them on all issues. Palin did better than expected. She didn't just use nouns and verbs as haters of her maintain. Biden slightly won, because of the answering of the questions in a more effective way (not that I agree with him since I don't). I think some need to spear us about Biden being a godsend. He said that the preemptive war in Yugoslavia (which slaughtered many innocent people via NATO. DU was used. Serbs were killed and the KLA were a terrorist group) is justified, while the preemptive war in Iraq must end immediately. I don't agree with fighting this war on terror at all. Also, Biden didn't show all of the facts. Many scientists have real evidence which disagree with the sole man-man climate change opinion. All climate changes caused by humans are impossible since the cycle of the sun and natural variations in Nature have huge impact in the climate (along with record winters and the research made by scientists disagreeing with certain parts of global warming). Palin should of pounded information point by point via more effective and succint words like Biden did. Yet, Palin did much better than I thought. I agree more with Biden on foreign policy issues and I agree more with Palin on abortion issues. I'm more of an independent Third Party person.
Can anyone seriously be undecided in this match-up? As a Democrat, I'm embarrassed for the Republicans who think this is an even offering to place before the intelligent American people.
Hey all, Biden just took us from Socialist (due to the bailout and take over of private co's by the fed) to Marxism, as he said "forgive the principle to those that can't afford what they are into." Hummm rings of "from each according to their ability to each according to their need." Here we go... Well Palin did ok, however Biden's lies will be found out. Interesting that CNN has Biden as a winner and fox has 86-12 Palin... Time will tell...
Tim, your thoughs are well formed, however the bit about "forgive the folks in debt" is scarey. It is really close to Marxism. Also, lets face it the Sunni and Shi'ite's have fought forever and the only uniting force for them is to be against us or Israel.
As a conservative, I am strongly against being in Iraq, when we leave there will be a vacuum and it will be filled by darwins theory. So since the al Qaeda forces are in Pakistan which offers them some security, and we aren't allowed there. Lets build the north and south fence and forget about that which we can't fix.
Lets remember one other thing... Russia is in Venz right now and is giving them 3 subs by 2012 no one is talking about that. Nor, is anyone talking about Barny Frank and his Pal at Fanny that enabled the CRA Bill which allowed folks that don't have adequate credit to get that which they can afford... WOW...
Worries me however that the R's are supporting the top % of the "multi national" corps while the rest of us go broke. Also anyone for GATT and NAFTA doesn't understand how we got poked by the deal Perot was on target, he just missed the China price...
So lots of blame to go around. Lets look however as Palin did reform Alaska... She's not one that can be bought, as she calls it like she see's it. Also, how come our mfg is down 40% over the last 10 years and China is getting stronger as are our "multi national" folks that are on boards of various multi national companies. The chickens are coming home to roost and we are again being poked...
Heres a though, give the tax breaks to companies by the ratio that they mfg in the US. Hammer them with full rates if they are over seas. A protectionist, no a nationalist for the US. Remember, we've been in a global economy since prior the civil war. The south couldn't move cotton to England or France etc... so the idea that we don't open up for exploitation would be "protectionist" is absurd...
Worried about connections of Obama with Ayres since they were on a board together! Not hearing much about that but it's something a thinking person can verify if they don't want spoon fed by the Media... Pluke
Sarah is the second coming of Jesus Christ our Lord! She is the greatest human being, the greatest politician, and the smartest follower of Jesus on Planet Earth!
Praise Jesus Christ our Lord for our Saviour Sarah! She will cast out all of the evil on the planet and take us all to heaven with her!
Save all the babies, and kill all our enemies!
No one is worshipping Palin. A lot of feel that save babies and not killing them is great. Also, killing our enemies (without due process or if they aren't a threat to us) isn't the way to go and isn't representative of true Pro-Lifers or true Christians at all. Your sacrasm will never intimidate the great pro-life movement at all.
Palin took the easy shots:
1) Make the audience feel good. Suck up to "the American people."
2) Use scapegoats. "Corrupt Wall street" and big corporations (oil) were the ones tonight.
3) Talk about helping education. No one can argue with helping kids. We tear apart Afghanistan, but we build schools. So it's okay.
4) Say what people want to hear. "Reduce emissions...use alternate fuels." But how? "Keep drilling up in Alaska." You can't please everyone, Palin: it's good besides the contradictions.
Without knowing facts or having a good grasp on the issues, she can come across as a good candidate. Hopefully all voters can see through the mask.
Sarah did a good job at not answering the questions presented to her. I feel she treated the American people as stupid. She talked around questions that were presented to her, without answering the questions. She offered a "pep" talk several times about how great America is. Well, America is great, but we are also intelligent. We can see through words that offer no content.
There is nothing wrong with taking easy as long as it's supplanted later with elaborate answers to questions. In the debate both persons made errors. So, it isn't like Palin destroyed herself. Also, drilling temporary is legitimate.
Biden clearly won. Palin used the same, tired bullet points, couple with winks:( which I felt greatly minimized anything she said.
This is interesting... article that has chart showing that the Republican States have a higher instance of teen pregnancies.
It also shows athat they have higher rate of folks without health insrance.
Sorry... that URL is...
http://obscurefact.blogspot.com/2008/10/republicans-vote-against-themselves.html
I find it fascinating, and telling, that none of those here who posted the 11 or so pro-Biden/anti-Palin comments on this debate post, posted anything in response to this post. Or any of my recent posts for that matter...
Please don't anyone tell me it's too long for you to really read (and delve into reading the links)...I expect Democrat voters to be intelligent, truly deeply-informed readers willing to do the research it takes to really learn all about their candidates, just as I expect anyone to do so.
Jack Wheeler you are an idiot. You find it fascinating and telling that no one responded to this post or any of your other recent posts. How does one respond to such short sightedness. Any attempt to have an intelligent conversation with you would be the same as trying to have an intelligent conversation with an evangelical pastor. No room for logic. If you were 40 years younger I'm sure you'd be a skin head. Do the world a favor and drop some acid. Do that and we might have an intelligent conversation.