and hopes you don't learn about it until after the election.
MATTHEW 25 NETWORK: run by the same anti-Catholic woman who once was John Kerry's Director of Religious Outreach (one of two he fired).
This is the jaw-droppingly so-called "Christians/Pro-Lifers For Obama" group, mentioned in comments at this post about Obama supporting unfettered taxpayer-funded abortion.
The scripture quote MATTHEW 25 NETWORK uses as its masthead and motto, just leaves my mouth gaping open:
"'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'"
And on their website they speak of "Christians across the country are answering the Gospel call to care for our neighbor, especially the most vulnerable..." and "promoting life with dignity, caring for the least of these."
???
How much more vulnerable, how much more "least of these" can you get than the unborn human being?
(eye twitch begins)
Isn't it convenient that so-called Christians like Mara Vanderslice, M25Network's leader, and company can quote that scripture and not only twist it 180 degrees backward to allow for abortion, but also ignore these quotes also from scripture? Here's just 3, there are plenty more:
"Shall I bring a mother to the point of birth, and yet not let her child be born? says the Lord. Or shall I allow her to conceive yet close her womb? says your God." ~ Isaiah 66:9Vanderslice "was director of religious outreach for the Kerry campaign in 2004 but was 'silenced' when Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, publicized her connection with various far-left political groups.""My chosen ones shall long enjoy the product of their hands. They shall not work in vain, nor beget children for sudden destruction." Isaiah 65:22-23
"Today I have set before you life and death...CHOOSE LIFE SO THAT YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN MAY LIVE." ~ Deut. 30:19-20a
"In an article in [June 18, 2004's] Washington Times, reporter Julia Duin says that Mara Vanderslice, the Kerry campaign's director of religious outreach, is no longer permitted to talk to the press. Vanderslice was exposed on June 14 [2004] in a Catholic League news release as being a far left-wing activist who has spoken at rallies held by the notoriously anti-Catholic group, ACT UP. The Kerry campaign is now reportedly in a "panic mode" over this revelation."
Don't take Catholic League's word for it: read about it here too.
Vanderslice is the Democrats' wolf-in-sheep's-clothing wunderkind: "Mara Vanderslice['s]...old organization, Common Good Strategies, is credited with helping Strickland, [Bob] Casey [Jr.], Kansas Gov.Kathleen Sebelius, and Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm...win election in 2006 by emphasizing their religious backgrounds."
All of whom have voting records that prove they support abortion more than they support the unborn's right to life.
The Curt Jester has even more quotes to remind Matthew 25 Network about, the best one being this:
How about Matthew 13:25 "but while men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away."Another outing of another flip-flop for Obama's professed distate for PACs supporting McCain.
In reality, it has always been OK that PACs (like Matthew 25 and Planned Parenthood Action Fund) support Obama.
One of Matthew 25's principles is the founder of the emergent church movement, a post-modern phenomenon that re-thinks (redefines) Biblical theology, adding eastern mysticism to the authority of God's word.
I'd hope you have "plenty more" Scriptural quotes to actually back up your claim that the Bible supports the criminalization of abortion, because the ones you cite are pretty weak evidence. To cite the prophetic passages from Isaiah, which are symbolic rather than literal, and a verse from Deuteronomy that happens to contain one of the contemporary pro-criminalization movement's catchphrases, as evidence that the Matthew 25 Network is twisting scripture "180 degrees" by not supporting the criminalization of abortion, is quite simply laughable.
Let's see some real Scriptural evidence - not just a collection of rather tortured interpretations ot proof-texts. If the case is as clear-cut as you claim it to be, you should have no problem whatsoever making the case from Scripture that (a) from the instant sperm and egg make contact with one another the result is a human life with full rights, (b) the abortion of a pregnancy for any reason (including rape and incest) is a moral evil equivalent to murder, and (c) all such operations should be criminalized.
If you can't make the case from Scripture for that - and a clear-cut case that does not allow for any alternative interpretations of the passages involved - you can't claim absolute moral certainty that abortion should be criminalized. If you can't make a case that stands up even to the harshest criticism, you must admit that alternative interpretations can exist among people of good faith.
Let's see it.
Jimmy wrote: "If you can't make the case from Scripture for that - and a CLEAR-CUT case that does not allow for ANY alternative interpretations of the passages involved - you can't claim absolute moral certainty that abortion should be criminalized. If you can't make a case that stands up even to the harshest criticism, you must admit that alternative interpretations can exist among people of good faith."
Jimmy, with respect, you are approaching this backwards and upside down. In the law, ancient texts are afforded a presumption of TRUTH which must be disproved, if there exists (1)an adequate chain of custody and (2)that which can be proved to be true has been so proved. I don't have the space here to go into the rock solid chain of custody of the Old Testament and New Testament, nor can I fully explain how so many things in the Bible have turned out to be true.
Suffice to say this: The onus is on you to prove the Bible is false, not on Christians to prove the Bible is true.
Even if all the evidence in all the world were presented--even if Jesus Himself appeared and said these verses mean what plb says they mean--my guess is that some people still will find a way to disbelieve. People walked and talked with Jesus every day while He was on the Earth and yet some still disbelieved.
Well-spoken, DDTKW.
Jimmy, I've been attacked and challenged by this type of argument for well over 5 years now. You're perhaps the 100th person to try it. Your inflammatory words like "criminalized" and "tortured interpretations" don't really hold any water. Besides I already published a longer partial list, 3 years ago, so it's no bother or time-waster (as you undoubtedly intended it to be) for me to give you that link below. Sorry to disappoint you.
Firstly, most prolifers, the ones you don't see getting ink in the MSM, don't support sending women to jail for having abortions. Even before Roe, it was doctors who mostly were at risk of that, and that's as it would be in the future. So please, stop inciting people's fears with untruths about who we want "criminalized." It just doesn't wash anymore.
Secondly, you're clearly not one who has truly studied the bible for meaning and message. If you've "studied" it at all, it was to pick it to shreds, as many college student groups are gleefully attempting these days. Good luck with that.
The quotes aren't tortured in the least. Amazing thing in itself, that you would say that God has tortured His own Words.
Since you're begging me for more "proof" from Scripture, since you're insisting that there be a direct, literal quote from Jesus or God Himself in the bible as we know it that says, "Thou shalt not commit abortion," are you saying then that if such a quote existed you would take it as inspired by God, as God's Word?
I seriously doubt that, but have you never heard "Thou shalt not put the Lord Your God to the test?"
By demanding such literalism, you are limiting God's Word to only literalisms, limiting Him to not using symbolic language that has additional messages for humankind.
Wow, that's pretty powerful of you, to limit God like that. And pretty misguided, and wrong.
You are in essence insisting, as John Kerry did and many others before you that it is "very difficult to legislate on something God himself has not seen fit to make clear to all the people on this earth."
What a crock. Really.
As DDTKW said, you aren't looking to be convinced. You believe you can limit God and pick apart His scriptures, no matter how many quotes you demand. (If you really want more quotes, many more, but not all, are here in this post from almost 3 years ago)
You know nothing of the interpretations of biblical scholars and their consensus throughout history. You know nothing of the fact that much symbolism is used as message throughout Scripture, from the number 7 to the definition of Gehenna to the parables (hello??) to a whole host of other topics. Would you also expect me to say that I expect Revelations to be all taken absolutely literally?
Go spend over 7 years truly studying the Scriptures as interpreted by many biblical scholars, and without your gimlet eye ready to attack, and then come back and we can have an intelligent discussion perhaps.